Filling tank off of another tank with sub pump.

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allline
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Filling tank off of another tank with sub pump.

Post by allline » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:51 pm

I have a customer that wants to be able to refill his main diesel tank off of another tank when he needs extra storage. He dos not want a siphon bar, he want me to run a line from the submerged pump on the extra tank to the side of the fill pipe on the main tank where he can refill the main tank on busy weekends. I would put a solenoid valve at the point of fill and have a leak detector on the diesel line. I would have the atg shut down the extra tank sub pump on high alarm. Is this legal on a federal level? Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

cstoredude
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Re: Filling tank off of another tank with sub pump.

Post by cstoredude » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:09 pm

Sounds kinda crazy to me, but might be legal. I guess it would depend on finding an overfill shutoff device that is rated for a pressure-fill.

I know that overfill flappy things exist for UST, but those are typically rated for gravity drop, not a pressurized fill. You'd have to find one of those rated for pressure fill, I think.

I wouldn't think the UST manufacturers would be very happy with you pressure filling a UST. I would check with them too.

Sounds dicey to me, but good luck!

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CherokeeUST
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Re: Filling tank off of another tank with sub pump.

Post by CherokeeUST » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:49 am

I'm not sure. How would the line leak detector on the original tank respond to fuel going into the tank?

How long will the diesel fuel sit in the reserve tank? Isn't he concerned with it going bad or developing algae?

Couldn't you line manifold the tanks and have the ATG control which is being used?
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cstoredude
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Re: Filling tank off of another tank with sub pump.

Post by cstoredude » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:45 pm

Now that I think about it, this sounds kind of like the thing Love's does.

They have that system that pressure fills one tank with bio while the delivery guy drops diesel fuel, right?

Maybe they found that unicorn overfill device that is rated for pressure fill?

Maybe the UST manufacturer they buy from has approved this? Anyone know about this?

I would suggest you try contacting one of the contractors involved with their system.

stuppid
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Re: Filling tank off of another tank with sub pump.

Post by stuppid » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:45 pm

You are crazy. There is no way a UST is rated for pressurized delivery. Stop it before you get someone killed.


sdisselhorst
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Re: Filling tank off of another tank with sub pump.

Post by sdisselhorst » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:38 am

stuppid,

What reason do you have for implying this is unsafe?

To the casual observer, it seems like this could be made safe, no?

stuppid
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Re: Filling tank off of another tank with sub pump.

Post by stuppid » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:03 pm

If the venting system and overfill prevention fail then the tank would be subject to full pump pressure. With a gravity drop this is only a few psi. With a submersible this is 30 plus. Just saying. I doubt a tank manufacturer would allow this.

stuppid
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Re: Filling tank off of another tank with sub pump.

Post by stuppid » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:05 pm

Even if the overfill prevention system does not fail if the vent is plugged the tank is subject to full pump pressure. Ast have the added protection of the emergency vent to prevent over pressurization.

allline
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Re: Filling tank off of another tank with sub pump.

Post by allline » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:08 pm

Customer does not want to manifold discharge lines. The leak detectors should not have any thing to do with fuel going into tank from extra tank. Tank monitor should just record it as a delivery. I am just concerned that there is regulations stating this is not legal but have not had any luck with that yet. If the tank is getting regular deliveries from a transport the vent has to be ok for him to unload. I would just be refilling on busy weekends or when terminal is out of supply. Dont see why vent would be blocked.
Thanks for all the input so far. I anybody knows of a regulation that would not permit this, I would welcome the input.

romfolmar
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Re: Filling tank off of another tank with sub pump.

Post by romfolmar » Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:23 pm

regulation of common sense prevents it

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