SEVERE STP corrosion internally on Diesel

Discuss underground storage tank regulations and compliance issues.
bugbuster
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Re: SEVERE STP corrosion internally on Diesel

Post by bugbuster » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:45 pm

Some years ago, the WV Dept. of Weights and Measures reported an epidemic of tank lining failures. In UST in which the lining had peeled away from the tank shell, in sheets, the side of the coating that had previously been in contact with the coating was covered with mold growth.

When coatings develop tiny holes - "holidays" - water and microbes can make their way between the coating and coated surface (note here that in this particular case, I am using "coating" and "lining" interchangeably; the purists know that there are differences). Once settled into this cozy space they can grow into substantial masses that debond the lining from the shell.

Root cause analysis lead to the conclusion that inadequate surface preparation had led to the subsequent debonding problems. I suspect that lining aging could also have been a contributing factor. Over time, erosion and chemical reactions with fuel can degrade lining integrity. It's called entropy.

Have I mentioned that this sort of microbial activity is one of the reasons I love bein a microbiologist.

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Re: SEVERE STP corrosion internally on Diesel

Post by ZMiller » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:45 pm

The little guys become like family in a way.
When you are dead it's likely you won't know it. It could be difficult for others. It's the same if you are stupid.
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in a way that they begin looking forward to the trip"

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This one is hard to figure out.

Post by ZMiller » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:39 am

One wonders how fuel refined in Czechoslovakia ends up in a diesel generators fuel storage tank in Chicago, Illinois.
When you are dead it's likely you won't know it. It could be difficult for others. It's the same if you are stupid.
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in a way that they begin looking forward to the trip"

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Re: SEVERE STP corrosion internally on Diesel

Post by bugbuster » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:48 am

Back in the 70's we (the consulting company for whom I worked) had the opportunity to fingerprint fuel spilled from the Argo Merchant. Within four weeks after the ship sank, the fuel had changed (degraded) so substantially that it bore little resemblance to the original product.

Given the fungibility of fuel in the U.S. fuel market, I'm wondering how you were able to identify the product has having come from the Czech Republic (it's been some time since Czechoslovakia existed); unless the product was in a vessel's fuel tanks, and the vessel had last fueled in Europe.

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Re: SEVERE STP corrosion internally on Diesel

Post by CherokeeUST » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:58 am

Zane, did you see the http://www.tffa.com/events/details/2017-fuels-summit-22 is having a session 3 November, dedicated to ULSD corrosion?

1:45 - 3:00 pm
Overcoming the Diesel Fuel Tank Corrosion Epidemic
Moderator:
Scott B. Fisher, TFFA

Panelists:
John Keller, Petroleum Solutions, Inc.
Michael Thornton, D & H United Fueling Solutions
Bud Moore, Vaporless Manufacturing, Inc.
Today’s ultra-low diesel fuel is causing storage tanks to corrode at an alarming rate! When the EPA revealed the results of a recent study on the increasing presence of substantial corrosion in diesel fuel tanks, it proved that the problem is much larger than anyone anticipated.
This 75 minute session will cover:
• A history of the diesel tank corrosion problem
• Findings of the EPA study and Speculative Causes
• Liability risks for tank owners, including clean-up costs
• Solutions to mitigate corrosion and extend the life of your diesel fuel tank
The opinions expressed here are entirely mine and are not endorsed by my employer.

Robert
www.linkedin.com/in/robertlargent


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Re: SEVERE STP corrosion internally on Diesel

Post by ZMiller » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:19 pm

Nice to see Bud on the pannel. Smart guy and working for nice people over at Vaporless. Maybe some enlightenment on the problem will be thought forward.

Helps to remain optimistic but I'm afraid serious discussions on the subject have become fruitless.
The point has well passed for resolving corrosion problems in existing tanks exibiting issues and more than 10 years old.
Glass and steel tank fuel storage infrastructures are failing, unreported and unprecedented in number.

When a customer asks why the integrity of a reletively new tank or major fueling system component fails do to corrosion of a bung, a bulkhead, or a pump motor column it's getting harder to answer without sarcasticly implying that they have not been paying attention, have poor maintenance procedures or have because of simple minded ignorance not heeded warnings.

"The State Water Resources Control Board (State of California Water Board) has seen a dramatic increase in the
number of underground storage tank (UST) entries for primary repairs and linings. To better understand
the root cause of the increase in repairs and lining, the California State Water Board has made multiple requests
that tank lining companies notify the State Water Board prior to preforming UST linings. The response
to these requests has been underwhelming"
When you are dead it's likely you won't know it. It could be difficult for others. It's the same if you are stupid.
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in a way that they begin looking forward to the trip"

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Re: SEVERE STP corrosion internally on Diesel

Post by CherokeeUST » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:07 am

Colorado presentation by Mahesh Albuqurque on ULSD.

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/ ... 20ULSD.pdf
The opinions expressed here are entirely mine and are not endorsed by my employer.

Robert
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Re: SEVERE STP corrosion internally on Diesel

Post by bugbuster » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:34 am

Thanks for sharing the Colorado PDF.

Overall, I think is provides a pretty good overview of the current situation; with the following exceptions:
1. There is no evidence that the sulfur concentration ([S]) in diesel fuel affects microbial growth. People should stop promoting this unfounded assumption. Over the past decade there have been numerous peer-reviewed papers demonstrating that [S] has no impact on microbial growth in fuels ranging from HSD to ULSD; including B5 through B20 ULDS blends.

2. As much as I like the 83% statistic, it is disingenuous to use it without also mentioning the very limited sample size. I don't want to go back to the EPA report to check the exact number, but, relative to the U.S. population of UST - even diesel-containing UST - the number of tanks inspected is orders of magnitude below the number needed to be a statistically valid sampling. I agree that the important take home lesson from the study was that most of the operators with moderate to heavy corrosion in their UST systems were unaware of the corrosion.

3. Thanks to a certain Mr. Murphy, regardless of how we plan to trim our UST, as soon as they have been filled once, they settle based on backfill inconsistencies. Some are actually lower at the fill-end than at the STP-end, but most aren't. Many settle so that they are lower at the turbine end. Others hog (lower at each end than in the middle) or sag (lowest in the middle). Regardless of the general trim, all have irregular bottom topographies (i.e., they have hills and valleys along the longitudinal, bottom centerline. This translates into spots where small volumes of undetectable water accumulates. Doing one's best to keep tanks as dry as possible is certainly best practice. However, we must all understand that even best practice is insufficient to keep all water out of the tank.

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Re: SEVERE STP corrosion internally on Diesel

Post by PatSmyth » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:13 pm

The 2016 EPA corrosion report discuses entrained (emulsified) water as a factor. ULSD molecules have no electrical charge, they are not polar. Additives, and biodiesel, are polar, and absorb water directly into the fuel column, hence emulsified water.

Pure biodiesel hold 15 to 25 times more water than pure ULSD B. (He, J. C. (2007). Moisture Absorption In Biodiesel and Its Petro-Diesel Blends. Food & Process Engineering Institute Division of ASABE. Moscow, Idaho: American Society of Agricultural and Biological Engineers ISSN 0883 8542).

Existing Biodiesel blends have between 2% and 10% biodiesel, with higher levels planned.

Microbes are following the emulsified water into the fuel column, greatly increasing their growth volume, some microbes produce acids. More microbes, more corrosion.

Biodiesel and additives absorb more emulsified water because their Interfacial Tention (IFT) is lower. In 2010, SAE updated their J1488 test of a filters efficiency in removing emulsified water from ULSD and biodiesel blends to account for the lower IFT, the active version is now J1488_201010. An efficiency of 92% can keep water below 200 ppm, which is the warranty limit for most emergency generator manufacturers. As well, water levels below 200 ppm control corrosion, the fuel is very dry, so less microbial growth.

There is a new generation of filters that can remove both water types from storage tanks, both free standing water on the bottom, and emulsified water in the fuel column. Filters that have a minimum efficiency of 92% as tested against SAE J1488_201010 keep the fuel very dry. No water = no life.

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Re: SEVERE STP corrosion internally on Diesel

Post by bugbuster » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:01 pm

PatSmith:

Before your closing comment about filters removing bottoms-water from UST, I was with you 100%.

How does a filter remove water from fluid that doesn't pass through it? STP are positioned to ensure that there is a quiescent zone. The height about the UST bottom varies (I've seen the STP intake a low as 2 in and as high as 10 in above the UST bottom). Water stripping (i.e. coalescing) filters have been around for decades (admittedly, the technology continues to improve), but the best filters can only strip water from fluid that passes through the element(s). What am I missing here?

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