Diesel corrosion

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ZMiller
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Re: Diesel corrosion

Post by ZMiller » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:48 pm

I have always presented options for adding amines to control microbial colonization in tanks to customers as part of a reasonable tank maintenance program. One problem I constantly run across in that customers don't seem to be bright enough to actually read or understand amine application instructions with a situation arriving that they do more harm than good.

The receint a few posts back though was not my composition. I was more or less just agreeing.
When you are dead it's likely you won't know it. It could be difficult for others. It's the same if you are stupid.
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in a way that they will begin looking forward to the trip"

bugbuster
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Re: Diesel corrosion

Post by bugbuster » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:16 pm

BTW, apropos of amines, there are two products that have both US EPA pesticide registrations (40CFR152) and fuel additive registrations (40CFR79). I have not stake in either, but these are two of the three fuel-treatment biocides that I've found to actually be effective.

ZMiller
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Re: Diesel corrosion

Post by ZMiller » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:09 am

Bugbuster. Are you coming to WPMA or Cal CUPA to discuss corrosion issues this year?
When you are dead it's likely you won't know it. It could be difficult for others. It's the same if you are stupid.
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in a way that they will begin looking forward to the trip"

bugbuster
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Re: Diesel corrosion

Post by bugbuster » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:29 pm

Sorry Zane, no.

The only conferences I attend - unless a client or the organizers sponsor my attendance are ASTM committee weeks: D02 -2; D22, E34, E35, E50 (one of 2/y), ICSHLF (Int'l Conf. on the Stability & Handling of Liquid Fuels, TAE, PEI, and STLE. That pretty well fills up my BCA-supported conference travel each year. There are many other conferences I'd love to attend - including NACE - but 7 week of conferences/y is about my limit.

ZMiller
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Re: Diesel corrosion

Post by ZMiller » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:16 am

Hi Zane - always good talking to you.

I thought that the PEI forum would be interested in an email discussion I’m having with the STI and industry fuel experts on the corrosion mechanism and corrosion control in stored fuel. STI published the detailed article in Tank Talk https://www.steeltank.com/Publications/ ... fault.aspx

There is also a LinkedIn discussion group, just started: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/ur ... 162436609/
Here is a brief summary of the corrosion mechanism. Read the article for details.

Note for corrosion control I discuss SAE J1488_201010 filtration as I’m familiar with it, but Nitrogen Blanketing also seems to be a viable alternative.

Summary: the corrosion mechanism is very simple, and has 2 steps:

1 - water permanently moves into fuel column. How? Biofuels are polar, as is water, so water and biofuels form a hydrogen bond; this bonded emulsified water stays permanently attached to the biofuel molecule in the fuel column.

2 - there is a great increase in the number of microbes; microbes now have the water they need to survive in the fuel column, away from the traditional place they live, the thin water fuel interface. More microbes produced + more acids produced = corrosion crisis.

The corrosion control is also very simple, fuel filtration of biodiesel blends (lower IFT), using a new generation of filters that can break the hydrogen bonds, as tested against the filtration industry standard SAE J1488_201010, with a minimum efficiency rating of 92%.

If this corrosion mechanism, and control, is so simple, why has this not been recognized before? What is new, and what factors are not being recognized?

The mantra of every fuel maintenance program is dry the fuel, but then goes on to recommend testing for water content by looking for water bottoms, or a “clear and bright” test. There is absolutely no recognition that water is permanently bonded into the fuel column, or that the only way to detect bonded emulsified water is by an inexpensive Karl Fisher titration test, or that efficient SAE J1488_201010 filtration can break the hydrogen bonds and remove the water.

I look forward to your comments.

Thank you.

Pat

Pat Smyth MBA
President
Octane Systems Inc.
patsmyth@octanesystemsinc.com
613-794-6090
www.octanesystemsinc.com
When you are dead it's likely you won't know it. It could be difficult for others. It's the same if you are stupid.
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in a way that they will begin looking forward to the trip"


ZMiller
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:53 am
Location: Atlanta/Phoenix/Sacramento

Re: Diesel corrosion

Post by ZMiller » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:42 am

I see the same issues with water in the fuel column of ethanol blended gasoline. Typically a heavy ethanol/water phase at the bottom can be removed but then temperature clouding sensitive water is still bonded in the remaining ethanol in the fuel column. Getting water out of the fuel column after the heavy phase has been removed requires lowering the temperature in the fuel column and freezing the water entrained (bonded). That one extra bonding oxygen molecule is the bitch sort of speak. Chilling the fuel separates the remaining water from the fuel but it drags the rest of the attached oxygenating ethanol with it and you end up with straight base blend stock R or C.

I'm now wondering if the cloudy diesel after water intrusion can be frozen out.
When you are dead it's likely you won't know it. It could be difficult for others. It's the same if you are stupid.
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in a way that they will begin looking forward to the trip"


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