Diesel corrosion

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tleaf
Pump Jockey
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:45 am

Diesel corrosion

Post by tleaf » Thu May 24, 2012 4:35 pm

Would like to visit an old problem again.



We have a c-store in NJ/NY area with 3 x 12,000g F/G diesel USTs. Throughput is 10,000 to 20,000 g/day. We have treated with biocide on a monthly basis; have no significant water; bottom samples show clean fuel. Yet we still have bouts with heavy corrosion in STPs, meters and filters, to the point that nozzles are not closing completely, and/or nozzles dispense fuel without registering on registers.



Sales reps say "try this treatment", at great expense, but we can't seem to get at the bottom of this. Have not done costly lab analysis - yet.



From what I've learned on my own, I firmly believe the vapor spaces in the tanks have become highly acidic, causing the corrosion. All product is pulled from one terminal on the Hudson River.



Any experiences out there similar to this???


Ted Leaf

timkpeci
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Diesel corrosion

Post by timkpeci » Fri May 25, 2012 8:16 am

If you took your sample from the fill area more than likely it will show clean. Pull your tank probe or your submerge unit and take another sample from the tank bottom to see if it lokks like the sample from the fill. Probably does't even compare to the fill sample. You need a tank cleaning and a good line flush

tleaf
Pump Jockey
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:45 am

Diesel corrosion

Post by tleaf » Fri May 25, 2012 8:50 am

Thanks for the reply, timkpeci.



We had the tanks cleaned last October with a Gamma-Jet system. Our tech deals with this problem (corrosion) almost on a monthly basis. IF it is the fuel itself, I've been told that excessive use of additives (at the rack-such as conductivity add.) can possibly lead to fuel quality problems.



Anyway, we've tried most everything we know, but it keeps coming back. (BioGuard ULS, Tank-Dri, Kathon, fuel polishing, tank cleaning, etc.). Sales reps say we need a corrosion inhibitor (expensive), but that doesn't cure the problem. We're even considering stainless steel risers on the STPs.



Again, we're all ears to anybody's experience with this.



Thanks.
Ted Leaf

timkpeci
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Diesel corrosion

Post by timkpeci » Tue May 29, 2012 9:41 am

Does this artical help any?????

Diesel Soap Tech Bulletin April 2012

Diesel Soap Tech Bulletin - April 2012

Peter M Guerra

Background

A new troubling phenomenon is occurring at times with Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel.The problem is called diesel soaps formation.Although not a wide spread problem yet,diesel soaps form when they react with surface active agents such as corrosion inhibitors.

Basically, The corrosion inhibitors that are added by the oil refiners at the rack contain salts that when exposed to water become acidic (actually the salt which is an acid combined with a base chemical separate into ions) These acids : (Dodecenyl succinic and Hexadecenyl succinic acid) react with fuel contaminants to form (soap like impurities) This was never a problem until the introduction of ULSD since these products were held in solution by the higher sulfur diesel fuels. With ULSD they can separate out and react with cations (eg sodium, calcium and other metal salts) commonly found in fuel tank water bottoms. Additionally rust and dirt may provide exchange sites that exacerbate the soap formation process.

The diesel soaps tend to plug filters, cause injector problems, fuel cloudiness and tank corrosion. Unlike asphaltenes which are dark, diesel soaps plug filters with a light colored gel material similar to what occurs when low quality biodiesel fuels are used repeatedly.

FPPF Solution

FPPF ‘s Diesel Fuel Injector Cleaner contains active ingredients that help dissolve these diesel soaps and eliminate the potential for filter plugging, injector problems and tank corrosion. Further our Fuel Power and the entire family of FPPF products containing Fuel Power also help to reduce the potential formation of diesel soaps. If and when the problem does occur we recommend multiple applications of FPPF Diesel Fuel injector cleaner as the best solution for diesel soaps problem. Use FPPF Fuel Injector Cleaner until the problem is eliminated.

Summary

New fuels, new engine technology, and new super fine filters mean diesel fuel additives are more important now than ever before.

Every fuel related problem is unique. From asphaltenes, fuel gelling, bacteria, fuel aging, low cetane, poor lubricity and now diesel soaps, FPPF products can solve your fuel problem.



tleaf
Pump Jockey
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:45 am

Diesel corrosion

Post by tleaf » Wed May 30, 2012 12:41 am

Thanks for the info.



I have the original article by Shell about diesel soaps, but our problem involves corrosion particles that are grainy, and look like coffee grounds when dry, and even sound like it when you shake a container of them. Also, these particles are ferrous (iron) and are attracted to a magnet.



We have books and manuals on MIC, microbiology, tank maintenance, research papers we've printed out, etc. The only option we seem to have at this point is to take numerous samples from the tank truck, and the USTs, and do expensive lab testing to see if the problem is inherent in the fuel as delivered, or in the UST after delivery. Our office is a hundred miles away from the problem site, which doesn't help.



Again, anyone out there with experience with this problem???
Ted Leaf


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dieselengine9
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Diesel corrosion

Post by dieselengine9 » Wed May 30, 2012 1:30 pm

I think there is plenty of experience with the problem but little explanation as to any cures or fixes. Each site seems to have a cause and cure all its own.

ZMiller
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Location: Atlanta/Phoenix/Sacramento

Diesel corrosion

Post by ZMiller » Wed May 30, 2012 4:26 pm

Have been working in and around Atlanta with this problem for the last two years. Dispenser meters, control valves, imploding filters, shear valve innards rotting away, motors falling off and drilling holes through bottoms of tanks. Some sites have cleaned up well with one treatment or another and others not so well. The trick is knowing what bug, mold or any combination and treating for the discovered strain. There are some cheap bug/mold test kits avaliable. Give old Dave Johnson who some know a call for the sampling kit info. I post his phone number and I'll just bet he will want to kill me. 1-216-262-5518 and yes the leave your American Express card number on his voice mail box is a joke I think.
When you are dead it's likely you won't know it. It could be difficult for others. It's the same if you are stupid.
"Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to Hell in a way that they will begin looking forward to the trip"

tleaf
Pump Jockey
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:45 am

Diesel corrosion

Post by tleaf » Thu May 31, 2012 4:43 am

timkpeci and others that may be interested, here is a link to the original BP presentation on Diesel Soaps:

https://www.neiwpcc.org/tanksconference ... uesday.pdf


Ted Leaf

tleaf
Pump Jockey
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:45 am

Diesel corrosion

Post by tleaf » Thu May 31, 2012 4:52 am

Our pump tech and I are fairly certain that the problem must lie in the fuel as loaded at the terminal. Our USTs are clean, probe shafts are clean, no water bottoms, clear fuel, etc. We have two c-stores that have this chronic problem, and both are supplied from the same terminal. I just need authorization to pull numerous truck samples and have them tested.



We'll see!!



Ps. That Diesel Soap link is very informative.
Ted Leaf

whittingtonm
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Location: Dallas, Texas

Diesel corrosion

Post by whittingtonm » Thu May 31, 2012 7:31 am

We had a lot of discussion of this topic on the Forum back in 2010, if I recall correctly, and the focus then was on batches of fuel or fuel from certain refiners, I believe.

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